Placing You First Insurance Podcast by CRC Group
The Placing You First Podcast spans a diverse spectrum of insurance industry issues to keep you and your clients informed.
Placing You First Insurance Podcast by CRC Group
Building Against the Blaze: Rethinking Wildfire Risk
Urban wildfires are rewriting the rules of home insurance, and the details matter more than ever. We sit down with Brittany Martin, Personal Lines Team Leader for CRC’s Western Region, to break down the construction features, spacing standards, and modeling tools that are redefining eligibility in California, Colorado, and beyond. From tempered glass and enclosed eaves to ember-resistant vents and Class A roofs, we get specific about what moves the needle with underwriters, and what can push a well-appointed home straight into the E&S market.
The conversation turns practical as we map a smart sequence of upgrades during renovations, helping clients elevate materials before renewal crunch time and signal stronger risk control to carriers. We also explore how carriers combine third-party data, AI, and wildfire modeling to evaluate homes at a parcel level. That precision opens doors for case-by-case underwriting even in tough counties with shrinking capacity. Agents will leave with actionable takeaways that can shift accounts from declines to competitive terms.
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Welcome to Placing You First, the podcast that puts retail insurance agents at the forefront of today's biggest industry topics. I'm Amanda Knight, and I'm joined by my co-host, Scott Gordon.
Scott Gordon:Hello, everyone, and today we're gonna be talking about something that's reshaping personal lines across the West and other parts of the country too. Wildfire residential construction requirements. We've all seen the headlines and the growing impact, but there's a lot happening behind the scenes that agents need to know.
Amanda Knight:Exactly. And to help us unpack all of that, we've got Brittany Martin, personal lines team leader for CRC's Western Region, and one of our go-to specialists when it comes to wildfire risk and home construction trends.
Announcer:This is the Placing You First Podcast from CRC Group.
Amanda Knight:This podcast features news and insights from a vast knowledge base of more than 5,500 associates who write more than 30 billion in premium annually.
Announcer:Plus, we give you the latest information on what's happening at CRC.
Scott Gordon:This is the Placing You First Podcast.
Amanda Knight:And now the hosts of the podcast, Amanda Knight and Scott Gordon.
Brittany Martin:Welcome, Brittany. Thank you for having me.
Scott Gordon:Let's start here, Brittany. By now, everyone knows about defensible space and Class A roofs, but what isn't getting talked about enough when it comes to wildfire-resistant construction?
Brittany Martin:Well, what we're seeing a lot in the industry right now is, of course, like you just said, defensible space is a big hot topic in California and Colorado, especially. There's a lot of science behind those types of things causing and contributing to wildfires when it comes to the dwellings. But what we're not seeing as much of being discussed is tempered glass, enclosed eaves, ember-resistant venting. Those are requirements a lot in California, under the Chapter 7A guidelines, but it's not in every area. And I think that people are under the understanding that in California all codes are equal, they're all the same, and it's all being required, but it's actually not. So if you're outside of one of these high wildfire areas, even a short distance, those codes may be completely different than if you are. So I think it's just really important for the insured and retail agents to understand who is in those chapter 7A code areas and who are outside and to educate their insureds about even if you aren't in those areas, still really smart to probably be following a lot of those guidelines because it's probably going to be going that direction regardless. And why not protect yourself if especially if it's new construction? Please make sure you're just doing everything you can. I mean, we just saw at the Palisades, you know, how how that fire can jump from home to home so quickly. That is one of the other things I guess we could talk about that I'm seeing come up with different carriers, is their underwriting based on home-to-home distance. So that is a new thing after Palisades that's entered the chat is home-to-home distance. And a lot of them are saying 24 feet is kind of the ideal um space, I guess, or minimal space. Not ideal, it's probably the minimum that they're gonna allow between the two homes.
Amanda Knight:Well, I mean, that sounds like an important point. I think in this day and age, it's very easy to assume, especially in some of these areas like California, that if it's a new build, well, they must be building it according to fire code, you know, these specific wildfire construction codes. But that's not necessarily it's not an automatic thing, right? Especially if you're a little ways outside of one of those hot spots. Um, and you mentioned they're not just looking at the age of the home anymore, right? I mean, it's lots of other things.
Brittany Martin:Yep. They're not just looking at the age of the home. And a lot of people are upgrading even, you know, if they didn't meet those requirements, or a lot of areas, counties are requiring them to upgrade if they're doing renovations, additions, things like that as well. But we're we're still seeing homes in California and Colorado on a regular basis that are doing wood shake roofs, which just seems you know, crazy. But it but it's uh it's allowed. I mean, we're seeing new construction that that has these. I mean, a lot of them, granted, are fire-treated and and things like that, but it just seems with all of the other options, like it it would be at the bottom of your list if you were in a in a California location or Colorado location of of any kind, really.
Amanda Knight:It makes sense to me.
Brittany Martin:Yeah, and it can make a difference. I mean, if you even if you're meeting all other guidelines, I mean, even one of those could can make you ineligible for an admitted carrier and push you into the ENS market. Um, you know, we're we're seeing a lot of that as well. It could just be one, you know, they don't have enclosed eaves, or they've got wood siding, or they've got a wood deck, and that that's enough to just disqualify them and not make them eligible for, you know, a standard carrier.
Amanda Knight:I was gonna ask, are you sort of, especially post-Palisades, seeing sort of an influx of business into the ENS side? Because maybe you've done some retrofitting, but we've not done everything yet. And so, but now we've got to go to the ENS side.
Brittany Martin:Absolutely. I mean, the Palisades Fire was a real turning point in our industry. It was already a difficult market. Wildfire was already really transitioning. Um, these high wildfire exposed areas were just really being pushed um to the ENS space, a lot driven by TIV, but also the Palisades Fire just put a lot of risks that would not have been required to be in ENS in ENS. I mean, a lot of the areas like the Palisades, we prior to that fire, we did would not have considered that a high wildfire area. Right. Now, you know, LA County, especially, a lot of that is is very um urban. It's all very difficult to place business now. So, I mean, even whether it's location and a lot of those homes have been there. Some of them have been upgraded to, you know, be fire resistant or to have those upgrades, you know, where they're considered to be meeting those chapter 7A codes, the ember resisting vending, but they still aren't qualifying for standard markets. And and a lot of that's just driven by location, and a lot of the standard markets are leaving the California market space.
Amanda Knight:I get it. I think that fire really drove home the fact that, like, we think of wildfire, you think of wild areas, right? Not densely populated, but those fires really illustrated that there is a risk in highly populated urban areas. And so that's a whole different ballgame.
Scott Gordon:And when you talk about the space between the houses, I mean, if you know fires jump from tree to tree, it seems like it would be pretty easy for the fire to jump from house to house, especially in those tight urban areas. I never thought about that, but that's a that's a big checkbox.
Brittany Martin:It really did change the game. I mean, the amount of submissions that we see in California has gone up significantly. And even then in turn, that affects even our ENS space. Now they're being flooded with new submissions, and now they're running into aggregation issues, and their guidelines are changing, and and some of these points are coming becoming more and more important because they're now looking at these risks a little different and going, okay, now we only want these ones that do have the enclosed eaves and the ember resistant vending and the class A roofs and the tempered glass. And they can do that because they have so many more risks, they're having to protect their book as well. And, you know, also only choosing certain risks to ensure, and they they can do that, which is really um making it hard for the consumer.
Scott Gordon:And I imagine, you know, when you think of it as just one house burning, well, maybe they can keep it from, but when the whole neighborhood is on fire, I don't think that there's going to be enough hoses.
Amanda Knight:Yes, right.
Scott Gordon:Anyway. Um now we've touched on this, we touched on construction a lot here. You talk about the roofs and everything, but let's talk more about the construction side. Um what are people are building these homes sometimes unintentionally, uh creating more issues for insurability, like the roofs. Uh what other kind of construction issues are creating these issues?
Brittany Martin:It's a new thing, because I mean, if you watched any of the footage, I I mean it's not new. I'm sure they all knew about it. We just didn't, we just didn't underwrite to that degree at that point. It wasn't something that had been like you said, normally you're thinking these wildland areas and the houses are further apart and they're still jumping. I mean, these embers can travel a very large distance, but I mean you can literally in the Palisades fire watch it go from one house to the next to the next. And a lot of these have like really dense areas, you know, the houses are really close together. Once you see it, you can't really unsee it. It's like, oh, these houses are close. They really are.
Amanda Knight:When that feels like an opportunity for agents, right? Because they have the ability to sort of position themselves as a trusted advisor by connecting clients with those contractors that are familiar with that wildland urban interface best practice situation. Um I think that just shows, and I think you would agree, Brittany, it shows value, builds credibility, not just with uh homeowners, but also with underwriters, right? That you're that engaged, that you've kind of got your ear to the ground and know what those things are that insureds need to be doing to protect their homes.
Brittany Martin:Well, I think that we just still see people building for aesthetics and rather than for functionality for wildfire defense, most importantly. Sure. Um I think that we're still seeing people use wood products, um, combustible products, you know, for the appearance. Um, I think that we also see it in the vegetation that they're using. You know, everybody loves those climbing vines and the Italian cypress, but those are like candlesticks. So I think it's really, really important if you're going to build a new home or even if you're purchasing a new home to get a well-versed contractor that kind of is um educated in wildland urban interface. That's mouthful. Um, and and to make sure that they know what is going to prevent your home from burning. They know what might even slow or protect your home, or the things that they can kind of advise you on how to mitigate that wildfire exposure. So, again, one of the main ones, the ember resistant vending is huge. Um, they actually say that enclosed eaves and the ember-resisting venting is like lessens your likelihood of your house catching fire by 40%, is what we've been told by some of our carriers. It's pretty significant. Um, we have carriers that have done the research. I trust and listen to. I mean, you know, it makes sense why they're requiring it, that it makes sense why the counties are, you know, adopting these requirements. Um, but the biggest thing is we have to make sure that the insureds are educated as well as the contractors, because you know, it only takes one house that doesn't have it or that's you know gonna catch fire to potentially, you know, catch others on fire.
Amanda Knight:Something else we hear from agents is confusion around, you know, what is actually gonna move the needle for carriers. So can you shed any light on maybe what's really making a difference when it comes to those yes or no underwriting decisions that would help our retail partners?
Brittany Martin:Well, I feel like right now we have a variety of carriers doing different things. I mean, a lot of them are relying on third-party data. Um, but a lot of them are starting to rely on more than just one source. We found that maybe just one source isn't enough. And we have some carriers that are actually going to a more science-based um approach. They're using um AI, they're using wildfire modeling. So they're actually, in certain cases, entering your home, your vegetation around your property, and they're modeling what would happen in the event of a wildfire. It's really, really interesting. It's really neat if you've ever seen one. It's not overly common, but we're starting to see it, which allows them to go back to kind of true underwriting where they're looking at a risk on a case-by-case basis, on an individual basis, rather than just we don't write in this code, we don't, we don't write in this in LA County. Um, it's it's allowing them to get really granular and very specific on each risk. And so then they're able to put AI on top of it. And if they take this tree out or, you know, take this wood fence out, look now how your home fares in the event of a wildfire. Yeah, we have um, and so it's that has been game changing as far as we're concerned, because it allows us to help some of these insureds that normally maybe we couldn't help because everybody's going, whoa, this is scary. And and you've got some concerns here. And you know, it doesn't, it's not an all or nothing, but it's like, look at how much this changes, look how your exposure changes if we remove this um from the dwelling, whether it's you know, wood siding or wood accents, or like I said, a wood deck or anything. So really, I don't know that there's one thing or another that's moving the needle, but I think we're gonna see some of this new technology, hopefully, really be what maybe moves the needle. Obviously, mitigation, any and everything that you can do to mitigate your property on, you know, just up front is always helpful. You know, using vegetation that's more fire resistant, obviously they're out there. You don't you don't want a bare yard, you know, that's not aesthetically pleasing, but there are a lot of different options that are, you know, um alternatives to the palm trees and the Italian cypress that are just known to be a hazard. Um, so I think it's just about being, again, really educated about what makes sense, what what withstands wildfire, where you should be placing it, and just being strategic. Obviously, we see people, you know, doing interior sprinklers. Sometimes those are required. Those are very helpful in placing business. Um, the exterior sprinkler systems are very helpful in placing business, but also just knowing the location and what you can be doing on your own dwelling, I think is just in your own property, is is very important and helpful.
Scott Gordon:And it sounds like with the eye in the sky literally watching you, it's a little less about what you say you're doing, yeah, than what's actually being observed.
Brittany Martin:Right. Yep. It it absolutely is. It it really is there technology has advanced so much that it is really able to see everything. And so, regardless of what you think you've done, yeah, it's gonna confirm it and it's gonna show you exactly how you're exposed and and where. May not be your whole home, it may just be one corner, but but then that's so helpful in in making some really easy changes.
Amanda Knight:Well, let's wrap up with some easy takeaways. What is one thing, Brittany, that retail agents should do right now to help clients in wildfire prone areas? Just one thing.
Brittany Martin:Yeah, I think like we discussed, I think education is the most important. Just making sure that they understand why these are such important requirements, why they're so important. Um, obviously, like we discussed, even being a trusted advisor on what they should and shouldn't be doing, connecting them with contractors that know um those mitigation processes as well are just so important and and bring so much value to the insured.
Scott Gordon:Yeah, this is uh it's a great time to partner with clients during renovations, not just new builds. Um if someone's replacing a roof or windows, that's a perfect opportunity to upgrade to compliant materials, you know, before renewal season sets in.
Brittany Martin:Yes, being proactive is always always very helpful. Proactive is the name of the game.
Amanda Knight:Great advice.
Scott Gordon:Yeah, I mean, just knowing about those eaves, throwing that that stat at you, 40%, that I had no idea. So that's a huge deal.
Brittany Martin:Yeah. I I didn't either, honestly, until it was it was shared with us what the actual percentage and you know, it because it's not all carriers, you know, but certain carriers are are they are it's not eligible if it doesn't meet these requirements. And, you know, when they finally explained it, it it makes perfect sense why they're doing it. They're protecting their book, they're protecting themselves, and and they could offer a lower rate on those properties because truly they were they were better protected than others without.
Amanda Knight:Well, and I just love that we're using technology in a way that actually is so helpful, right? It's not just no, I can't insure you. I it's well, I can't insure you for this, and but here's what you could do. Here's where the problem is, here's how you could fix it, right? Instead of just no, but no, but right? We can we can there's no with no explanation.
Brittany Martin:Yeah, everybody hates that. Yeah, I mean, because then you just feel like you're just being declined and you have no idea why. I mean, why not give them the information and the tools that they need to make themselves eligible for coverage? More appealing risk. Exactly. I love it.
Scott Gordon:Yeah, literally, like it's no, but here's a wrench. Uh, get started on some repairs or a few of some modifications.
Amanda Knight:Yeah.
Scott Gordon:Well, this has been great. I I I I didn't know half of this stuff. This is pretty interesting. I mean, we're not in the hot spot in terms of the West Coast wildfires, but it's always good to know. Um, so we've we've covered the complicated part, Brittany. Now uh we're gonna have a little a little fun. Uh, this is what Amanda and I like to call rapid fire. It's just whatever comes off the top of your head.
Amanda Knight:All right, are you ready? Yep. First, first one, Brittany. If you were not an insurance, what career would you choose?
Brittany Martin:Ooh, that's a good question. Honestly, I think that I would probably like a not-for-profit for like animals or or kids. That that would be my more of a passion than a passion project. Yeah, absolutely.
Amanda Knight:I like it.
Scott Gordon:Okay, um, our next question. Well, first of all, do you like coffee, Brian?
Brittany Martin:Any morning, it's a white chocolate Americano with cream.
Scott Gordon:Uh well, then this next question is just for you. What's your go-to coffee order on a Monday morning?
Brittany Martin:Any morning, it's a white chocolate Americano with cream.
Amanda Knight:That sounds delicious.
Brittany Martin:Yeah.
Amanda Knight:She knows her order, Scott. She knows what she wants.
Brittany Martin:Yep.
Amanda Knight:All right, last one. What's your favorite place to escape to when you really need to unplug? What's your favorite spot?
Brittany Martin:I we have a we have a place on the Ponderay River in North Idaho. By far my favorite place to go and relax.
Amanda Knight:I have heard Idaho is surprisingly beautiful. No one thinks about Idaho, but Idaho is amazing.
Brittany Martin:It's it is the most beautiful place. If you can't, I mean, everybody who comes here is says this the same thing. I was actually in a meeting one time and I was sitting out on my dock and had my computer open and they were like, is that a background? And I was like, no. And and so if you ever come to Idaho, let me know. Definitely. Yeah. And then we can we can come in the summer though. The summer's I've heard, yeah.
Amanda Knight:Come in the summer. Winter is rough. I've heard winter's a little much in Idaho.
Brittany Martin:It can be, you know, I live, so I'm technically in Washington, but we're right on the border. So it's uh, you know, in Spokane. And um, yeah, it's the winters are not my favorite. I'm used to them, but I mean, like summer, summer is by far the best time of year around here. We have a lot of water, it's so beautiful. Um, you know, just lots to do. There's lots to do in the winter too. I just not a fan of the gold as much as I get older.
Amanda Knight:I get that. Well, Brittany, thanks so much for joining us and sharing your insights with us today. We appreciate it. You back?
Brittany Martin:Thank you for having me.
Scott Gordon:And for our listeners, if you're helping clients navigate wildfire exposures, or if you need guidance on complex placements, reach out to your CRC specialty team. They're here to help you stay ahead of the marker and keep your clients protected.
Amanda Knight:Thanks for tuning in to Placing You First. Don't forget to subscribe and share this episode with your team. We'll see you next time.
